Posted by ‘BRIONNE’ aka ‘FORK OF DOOM’

In the first days of Magic, when people riffle-shuffled their grimy, unsleeved cards, there was a guy. Maybe he kicked puppies for sport. Maybe he volunteered at homeless shelters. We don’t know. But one day he showed up to the kitchen table sporting a new deck, one that he had spent weeks building. He played his new Black Lotus, then used it to cast Channel. Following that was a lethal Fireball. He was promptly labeled a jerk and everyone refused to play against “that stupid deck” ever again.

Since that fateful day, casual Magic players have been dealing with the question of what cards and decks are okay to play. Since I believe that a definite answer to that question would create a black hole in the internet, I’m not going to answer it. What I will tell you is why you wanted to punch that person who won with Kiki-Jiki/Pestermite last weekend.

Let me pose a question: Given a Grand Arbiter prison deck, Zur beatdown, and Sharuum combo, which would you least enjoy playing against?

Decks like the Sharuum combo deck mentioned can reliably win the game before turn six. They feature two card combos, or combos that are easily assembled. They are often full of efficient draw power and cheap tutors. I like to call decks like this “100 card Vintage”. Given that we play a format with a ban list similar to that of Vintage, it isn’t hard to throw together a list that can crush any Grand Prix pod. The issue, of course, is that most Commander players hate early game decks. Ironically, these decks are less likely to play “d-bag” cards than decks that win later in the game. Pact of Negation isn’t a “jerk” card, it’s just an extremely effective counterspell.

 

Unlike this guy. He probably kicks puppies for fun.

 

The next group of decks are represented in the question by Zur the Enchanter. These are decks that win in the mid game. Sure, they can stumble into a godhand and win turn four, but they are designed to stick around for a bit longer. These decks devote less deck slots to winning and more to interacting with the rest of the table. These decks can feature clunkier combos and “d-bag” cards. I’ve noticed a lot of decks with with tons of ramp and splashy draw power in this category.

Last we have the late game decks, like the Grand Arbiter deck mentioned. This is where the prison, stax, and heavy control decks start to win. These decks devote most of their deck space to keeping you from winning. Late game decks often lock you out until they finally draw their win condition.

 

This could take awhile.

 

The decks in all three categories are obviously good. We may be Commander players, but we still like winning. Why shouldn’t we appreciate good decks?

The early game efficiency monsters, for starters, cost crazy amounts of money. Many players get upset when they feel a deck has overpowered them simply because of its price tag. Of course, the most obvious problem with these decks is when they win. Early game decks can goldfish before most players are able to cast their general. You didn’t go to all the trouble of building your Kaervek the Merciless deck to spend the game starting at him in the command zone, knowing you’ll never cast him. Another thing people hate about early game decks is they feel these decks don’t belong in the format. Early game decks play Mox Diamond instead of Gilded Lotus. EDH is supposed to be a place for big mana spells and cool creatures, not for vintage-esque combo decks. My biggest problem with these decks is that it takes me at least ten minutes to shuffle my deck. (Worst part of being a woman and playing Commander– my hands are too small to shuffle the whole deck!) If the game doesn’t last longer than the time it took me to shuffle I’m going to be annoyed.

I will admit right now that the next category of decks are the most likely to bother me. Mid game decks run at about the same speed that most EDHs do, only they’re more broken. Common occurrences with these decks include “Tooth and Nail for Kiki-jiki/Pestermite, I win” and other big mana combos. The number one reason these decks upset people is the perceived amount of skill required to play them. When all a deck seems to do is ramp, draw cards, blow a few things up, and then play its combo, the other players at the table get mad. They think the deck is one that pilots itself. Also, because these decks are so similar to most Commander decks in speed, this is where many players feel restraint should come in. When you play against a deck that’s like yours but with a few more powerful cards (maybe even “d-bag” cards) and interactions, it’s very frustrating. You think “my deck could easily be that good but it wouldn’t be very fun to play against.” These thoughts and feelings have a strong impact on how players treat the pilots of mid game decks.

The last category of decks is one that lots of people love to hate. Few players enjoy prison decks because they dislike not being able to play their cards. The same goes for stax and control decks. These decks often allow players a normal game while they sculpt their hand and set up their board position. Then, bam!, you can’t do anything. This leaves a player with the unpleasant feeling of being toyed with.

I hope this breakdown of hated decks will make you stop to think the next time a deck or player makes you angry. Often, stopping to ask yourself why this is the case (and not answering with “because they’re a jerk for playing X card or deck) can make your Commander experience better. If you hated the Crucible/Strip Mine lock, perhaps some exiling artifact removal like Revoke Existence would be helpful. If it was the Tooth and Nail win that annoyed you off so much, counterspells or an effect like Time Stop might be in order. And if you can’t adapt your deck to the situation, then you might simply be out of luck. Yep, I said it. Sometimes people play cards and entire decks that piss us off. There are few choices in how to deal with this.

  1. Escalate the arms race
  2. Bitch to anyone who will listen
  3. Call people names (bitching optional)
  4. Stop playing with them
  5. Play solutions to their cards

Each one of these possibilities impacts playgroups and environment, so it’s important to consider the results before acting.

 

  • Brian

    Tl:DR for those who didn’t red: Playing anything other than Jackal Pups and Mogg Fanatics will make people hate your deck.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=21725844 Joe Scharphorn

      That seems unfair to describe this article in that way. She provided good reasons people lay dislike those decks so people can consider why that is rather than just hitching about it. If people running those decks decide to change them, knowing what makes them hated – because not all combo decks are hated equally – is important. She considers 3 archetypes that are often hated. If you think there are only a few archetypes other than those, you haven’t explored deck building enough.

      • Mark

        I appreciate the humor and accuracy (intended or otherwise) in Brian’s comment. For people who have a very narrow view of the game, any strategy that uses alternative axes to winning (apart from bashing creatures together) is “bad”.

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=21725844 Joe Scharphorn

          You replied to my comment but not about it. I still maintain that there are decks for archetypes like combo that aren’t hated in the same way as other combo decks, and that not playing the nearly universally disliked decks Brionne mentions does not mean having to play midrange aggro decks. Case in point; my Glissa the Traitor deck runs a Grave Pact combo to create a prison-like board state, but since lands remain, players can still interact with me and play Magic unlike with Forge & Nev Disc or Stasis & Winter Orb combos. It’s still combo and prisonesque but not the same as those others. Also, I hate Splinter Kiki combos for being unoriginal ports from recent Standard/Modern, but not less boring combos such as Obliterate & Bitter Ordeal just because some decks are hated doesn’t mean the whole archetype is.

    • http://twitter.com/generalspeak Imshan Poolar

      Mostly, I’m glad I’m not the only writer on CommanderCast who seems to get forum trolls.

      • http://twitter.com/Allehegens Brian McLaughlin

        Ack! I’ve been misunderstood. I really liked the article, actually!

        Mark
        is correct. Perhaps I was trying to be too clever. After she described
        all the archetypes players didn’t like, what was left. Bad aggro decks.
        That’s a bit of hyperbole because not all control decks are bad and
        certainly not all combo decks are the same. For example, there is a
        hugeeeeeee difference between Kiki-Mite and Hermit Druid. It’s not even
        close.

        I think a lot of the problems commander groups face, from personal experience is that:

        1.
        They get way too caught up in winning/losing and are just far to
        emotionally invested in the(ir) game(deck). One bad loss or even a
        grindy win that took awhile will often send them to the forums to
        whine/complain.

        2. Some players aren’t as experienced at the game
        and just build subpar decks. They can’t beat better players even if
        they are only playing fun decks. I swear to god I had someone straight
        up had a table lose to Crystal Shard plus Duplicant and one of the guys
        whined foever about it. You can’t make this shit up.

        People need
        ways to interact with others, every deck, no exceptions. From the most
        hardcore combo deck to the funnest Mcfun deck. I should know, I tried it
        with my casual-ish Thromok deck. It was just a pile of dudes and some
        good creatures but nothing anyone could complain about, no Vorinclex or
        anything that goes over the top. I played almost no removal. And I lost a
        lot. The board would just get clogged up with shit and I couldn’t do
        jack shit with only my utility guys. I had to play some sweepers. I
        jammed in Starstorm, Chain Reaction, Blasphemous Act, etc and the deck
        was much better. Being able to wipe the board and reload with Genesis
        was a good feeling.

        So I’ve rambled enough. I fear topic is longer than this format allows but yeah. Good article and stuff. Pew pew.

  • http://twitter.com/GDCCommander GeneralDamageControl

    A few quick thoughts-
    Every dedicated Zur deck I’ve faced down doesn’t interact at all. Optimized Zur builds are goldfish decks, designed simply to slowly assemble the correct combo pieces to win the game in the easiest possible way.
    I’ll take the Sharuum combo over the crap prison deck any day. At least there I have a chance to play my cards. For me, EDH is about the game interactions, and anything designed to prevent those can GTFO.
    I’ll take the quick combo loss a heck of a lot better than the KJ/Pestermite that “randomly…weird!” shows up after two hours-worth of a good game. In the former, I’ll be irritated. In the latter, I’ll feel cheated out of an entire evening.
    Here’s the real issue – why are these types of articles (and I write them all the time myself) starting to become so commonplace? I hate to disagree with Joe S., but I don’t think people that play those decks at this point in the history of the format want to change at all. They’ve migrated over from competetive formats and are playing EDH the way that they’re played everything else.
    So No. 5 above is the solution. Play the answers. Enjoy the accomplishment when they work. Let the hardcore player know the combo he just used isn’t appreciated when the answers don’t get there.
    And wait for the “new-breed Spikes” to get bored and wander off to Cube in the near future.
    —>DJ
    —>www.generaldamagecontrol.com

  • Mightily_Oats

    6. Start a calm, well reasoned dialog with the offender and try to convince them to, if not stop playing the obnoxious decks entirely, then at least build another deck to bust out once they have established that they are “King Shit of Fuck Mountain”. If they refuse, smack them with a rake. :)
    I would love to believe that every person can get on the same wave length, that everyone plays EDH to fulfill the exact same needs, but that just isn’t the case. Sometimes we have to take responsibility for our own fun and if we are playing with someone that is ruining our fun then it is up to us to fix the problem through whatever means we have at our disposal, be that intelligent discourse, a chainsaw or anything in between.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=50300736 Shawn Hudson

    Personally, I don’t mind combo decks, because they’re both fun for me to play AND play against. Kiki-Jiki Pestermite … you’re just not doing it right if someone at the table can’t stop that.

    Also, for things like Tooth & Nail, that’s exactly why I pack Time Stop. Even better, drop that Mystical Tutor on the table to grab it and let the player with the Tooth and Nail combo know that you’ve got a card for them, just waiting. I think that players who simply whine about this should assess what they can do to stop the combo instead of just hoping it goes away.

    In general, if the combo’s not going off before turn 5 or so, then I think it’s fair game. If it’s a degenerate Hermit Druid-style deck, well, that’s somewhat of a different story and should be handled with a quick smack to the noggin: “Whuddafuckayousthinkin’bringindemsshenanigansupinherrreee?”

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=50300736 Shawn Hudson

      Last note – this is why you shouldn’t hate your blue players off of the table. Just like Andy always harps about how red needs its land destruction to be effective, blue players are the keys to gettin’ everyone else’s ass out of a jam when Spike McCombo comes around.

  • Hawtgnutek

    For a long time our playgroup had Uril, the Miststalker as the boogie-man. It only took 1 set of games for me to go to the Gatherer and pull up a list of all the cards that would force him to sacrifice his single creature. After that, he built Hokori, Dust Drinker and it was all over for that guy. We have since stopped playing with him (except for very rare cases) and he wonders why we don’t want to play with him anymore.

    Fool me once…

  • Ste990

    My favorite is 6. Say “Good game. Got another deck?”

  • Alvin

    To me, or in my playgroup at least, it’s much less the deck and more the person piloting it. Our Sharuum player (called so because that’s his only deck) is generally a nice guy who is really difficult to play against because he is a really good player and knows his deck really well. His deck is a bitch to play against because it’s so focused, but playing against him, you get the feeling that you are playing against a superior player rather than a jerk deck.

    The other major control player is a complete douchebag when playing EDH. He’s infamous for his Oona and Grand Arbiter deck. He bitches and whines when other players gang up on him (if only because he is the biggest threat most of the time), punishes a player severely for even landing a single blow on him (you dealt one damage to me? I will screw you up for the rest of the game), and just goes ballistic when another player starts countering his stuff (the last game, his small creature was Counterlashed because the other player wanted to put in his own creature, and he went on a nerd rage saying ‘ooo! playing counterspell! in that case, I’ll play blue next time!’ and went on and on the rest of the game), resulting in others not touching him until he reaches his infinite combo. After said combo he’ll spout shit like ‘it’s just a trolling deck’ or ‘just having fun. No hard feelings’

    So yeah. I just want to point out that although some decks get the unfortunate label of being a jerk deck, I think it’s more of the case that the unpleasant feeling is being generated by the player piloting the deck rather than the deck itself

  • http://www.facebook.com/bob.amble.5 Bob Amble

    There is really only one solution presented here: Escalate the Arms Race.

    Options two and three are pretty much disqualified from the start if we come at the situation as adult people capable of functioning in normal social situations. You don’t bludgeon people for doing things you don’t like, whether that bludgeoning is verbal or physical (unless you wear a leotard and hit people with folding chairs for a living).

    Option four is ultimately dissatisfying because it doesn’t offer any solution, it just assumes the situation is so bad that it can’t possibly be fixed. It is to me the same as telling a gunshot victim to just get on with it and die already.

    Options one and five are the same. If you do play answers to a particular strategy then you force that strategy to evolve and become either more brutal, more resilient, or die so that a more powerful strategy can take its place.

    If, for example, a deck that capitalizes heavily on graveyard interactions is dominating in your area, people will tend to (over time) play more answer cards such as Relic, Bog, Crypt, etc. Your opponent can choose to change card selection and strategy to be less vulnerable to this tactic by doing things like avoiding an “overstocked” yard or using “Jester’s Cap” effects to neutralize some of the potential hate cards before they hit. B

  • Guest

    What really bothers me when someone plays a broken combo or a d-bag deck is the feeling that my time was wasted. Getting 3 to 5 people to sit down to play a game takes awhile. We all take time making our decks and finding the cards we want to play and to have someone combo out turn three or lockdown the game so people have a really difficult time playing cards…than you are taking time away from me and everyone around the table.

    When I make a deck I ask myself a simple question, “If someone were to play this deck against me, would I have fun?” If the answer is no, than I fix my deck. If I could combo out on turn three and automatically win the game I ask myself this, “What do I get if I win right now…money, a trophy, a night at the playboy mansion?” If the answer is no, than I don’t play the combo and let people play have fun.

    It’s perfectly fine and I want to encourage people to play broken decks or combos if you are playing for money or a championship…but if you’re just playing a broken deck or combo just to win and act like a boss in front of people at your local shop than just go flex in the mirror and save yourself some time.

  • http://www.facebook.com/bob.amble.5 Bob Amble

    Hose tutors and non basic lands with your deck. That should cover your bases pretty well.

  • http://www.facebook.com/trevor.dahl.50 Trevor Dahl

    Great article! It’s way easier to complain than to actually do something about it.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1163970094 Drew Crash Lindell

    I believe it should be a rule that if someone plays Armageddon followed by Smokestack it is legal to choke that person out.